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Post by Marlins (Michael) on Feb 26, 2024 0:06:39 GMT
How does everyone feel about a 4-round draft? Looking at the prospects drafted from year to year in this league, it feels like the average quality of the talent available is on a steady decline. We're in the middle of round 3 and already going deeper into the player rankings, undrafted college players, and international players than we have before, or so it seems. Adding 80 new prospects per year is pretty high, and I wonder if we'll ever level off in terms of average annual talent available. What would we think of changing the draft to three rounds? I know this might also have implications for the round that requires us to draft from our own organization, which is a rule we've already discussed before, but either way, I think this is worth considering.
I'm just curious if anyone else has thought about this, or shares my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me, too; I'm just speculating right now. What do y'all think?
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Post by Dodgers (James) on Feb 26, 2024 14:26:06 GMT
Hi - interesting discussion point! I will sit on the fence and say i don't mind but also say I'd come at your question from a different angle.
I think this is less about how many prospect draft rounds there are and more about how many prospects are kept. In this league there are 20 teams and the ability to have 25 prospects each - that's 500 prospects in total which is incredibly deep for any league. And requires incredibly deep prospect knowledge, (and acceptance that the majority of those 500 won't ever make the majors). This is made slightly easier by the ability to draft Japanese players or likely top picks in the 2024 draft (we've even had likely 2025 draftees taken in this prospect draft) which accounts for 30 or so of the possible 500.
I play in a number of different leagues that have prospects and all are different and have pros and cons. From a 10 team league with 10 minor leaguers each, added in a prospect draft each Spring, to a full dynasty league with 14 x 35 prospects and you can add at any time.
So to me this is more about the level of desired prospect knowledge of members of this league. The size of prospect pool (500) would suggest a deep knowledge and as a result the perceived value of 3rd/4th round prospect picks is fairly low.
Hypothetically there are two changes I could see making things more of a level playing field: 1) Limiting teams to maximum 15, or even maximum 10 prospects on their squad: This would mean 300 or even 200 prospects being kept in total. This would mean more meaningful prospects being available in 2nd, 3rd, 4th round. It would also probably slightly increase the value of draft picks and result in more trading of prospects as people cut down to or below the 10 or 15 prospect limit ahead of the draft. 2) Limit draft picks to players who have been drafted or signed by a mlb club. ie no 2024/25 draftees or international players who may come across in future years. This would vastly enhance the value of many first round picks in future years, esp the first 10/15 or so, as the top talent would be available, and thus make it easier for bad teams to get better quicker and create a more level playing field between squads. Equally, some people love an impossible rebuild job!
So i'd keep the 4 rounds as i love drafting, but shrink the pot a bit.
Not saying you should do those things, just that you could if you wanted to. The league is great.
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Post by Tigers (Chris) on Feb 26, 2024 18:26:44 GMT
I enjoy the current draft structure - I joined this league because I wanted to beef up my prospect knowledge and I think it definitely has done that. I would be against capping the number of prospects kept at anything less than 20 or so, in a league this deep you need as many dart throws as you can get to see if you hit a bullseye.
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Post by Mariners (Brett) on Feb 26, 2024 19:57:58 GMT
I would agree with the points that Chris made. You may talk me into eliminating the 4th round, but I've used it more recently to balance and complete a trade. I'd be in favor of keeping things as is.
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Post by Pirates (Doug) on Feb 26, 2024 23:42:07 GMT
I also prefer keeping things the way they currently are
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Post by Guardians (Kris) on Feb 27, 2024 4:59:31 GMT
As they are, strongly
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Post by Guardians (Kris) on Feb 27, 2024 5:02:33 GMT
Mostly cuz I am insanely in love w drafts, it’s one of the most fun things (personally) cuz I’m a weirdo. I’d love expanding, but again I’m nuts
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Post by Phillies (Rook) on Feb 27, 2024 10:17:09 GMT
I founded this league after playing in an identical league for about three years. They had and still have a limit of 20 Prospects. I increased it to 25. Why? 1) I love how many trades this type of league generates. Prospects are a big factor in why there are so many trades in all three of these leagues. Trades number more than 50 per year, every year. 2) The original league forced me to become way more knowledgeable on Prospects here and especially abroad. 3) You better be able to spot talent in Colleges for this and next years drafts. 4) Having 25 prospects allows you to draft 17 year old kids in the Dominican Republic hoping they hit 4-7 years later. 5) Having 25 prospects allows you to blow up your team and start over.
I loved the set up of the original league. It was just fun playing. It isn’t about winning to me as much as it is about playing the long term game. Can I take a 17th place team and move it up four spots next year to get more money. What categories do I need to improve. It keeps me motivated in July - Sep. when trades slow to a near stop.
The fourth round pick could be done away. It’s a flyer on taking a young prospect from your teams organization who can barely shave.
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Post by Red Sox (Wally) (Commisioner) on Feb 27, 2024 12:11:24 GMT
I enjoy all the input here.
I have not weighed in because (a) I want to hear what as many as possible folks have to say, and (b) more important right now, keeping up with all the duties of a commissioner is, well, pretty time consuming (as both Rook and Rodger know).
Keep it up.
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Post by Blue Jays (Rodger) on Feb 27, 2024 12:25:05 GMT
A lot of great points already made.
For me, the biggest draw in this league, is needing to have an extensive knowledge of prospects unlike any other leagues I play currently and have in the past. So, I would be very reluctant to reduce the prospect roster numbers. For sure we could lose the 4th round and I don’t think that hurts the league at all, and it could leave a few more players available for the following years draft.
The beauty of this league is having to have knowledge of all aspects of baseball rosters, from the MLB and its position depth and bullpens, down to the minor league and of course the international market and collegiate circuit.
Once all this knowledge has been absorbed many strategies can then be put in place by managers to try to win this league. Win now, build for the near future, build for further down the line and stockpile young talent and picks, with which you can either hope to hit on those elusive superstars or flip to other teams for MLB talent. Over the years I’m sure I’ve tried all of these and find each one as enjoyable as the next.
For this reason, I see value in all pieces of a squad, MLB talent, prospects, picks, and even expiring contracts and rental players.
This is the reason I love playing in these leagues. And of course I’m always happy to discuss ways to improve the league, I don’t personally think reducing the prospect numbers would achieve this.
But I enjoy the discussion and seeing how involved you all are, in making this a great league.
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Post by Brewers (Kyle) on Feb 28, 2024 18:10:51 GMT
I dont see the point of Limiting the number of prospects you can have. If 85 players are drafted, and I want to build up a monopoly of lottery tickets, I should be able to have 200 prospects (knowing that we will never get to that point, just my opinion on the matter).
I disagreed with the 4th round pick when I first joined, and like Brett, primarily utilize it as a trade piece. I feel there are certain teams that develop players better, and it's a hindrance to be involved with one of those lesser teams. Now, I realize the fairness since a bulk of the top 5ish players are already gone and the 4th round primarily is fill in guys or lottery tickets. I would be okay scrapping the 4th round, but it sounds like the majority are for keeping it. As I would be fine keeping it too.
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Post by Marlins (Michael) on Feb 28, 2024 21:13:30 GMT
Thanks everyone for the discussion. I think I'm with those who want to toss the 4th round, or at least who may be less attached to it. With a few exceptions, most of our rosters don't have a strong affiliation with their real life MLB team, nor should it have to. I don't think it's worth having a rule about drafting from your franchise if it's our only rule on the subject, and typically ends up with a low-ranking prospect anyway.
I don't feel like we need to cut back on the 25-prospect limit though, as someone who has benefited from having close to 20-25 at one point (I also don't feel like we should ever significantly increase it, however).
I brought the conversation up out of concern for how the quality of the draft pool might change year to year given how many prospects we draft. I'm not against the extra research into the college, high school, international, etc. I also enjoy having that opportunity to dive into those pools. I was merely speculating that if we continue to draft as deeply as we do on an regular, annual, basis, we'll eventually reach a point where we have to go deeper and deeper into research on players to the point where it's more and more complicated for managers to find players and data on them. If quality goes down, that means draft pick value does too, I suppose, which is something I've been thinking about when future picks come up in trade talks.
Maybe I'm speculating too much and none of that will happen. Either way, I'm interested in reopening discussions on the 4th round of the draft and whether we should keep it around.
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Post by Blue Jays (Rodger) on Feb 29, 2024 12:00:36 GMT
I certainly see what you’re saying about the number of college/high school/international picks that have been made this year.
On the whole, I try to stay clear of this market, having, over the years, seen how volatile it can be. I see it as a huge gamble by taking these players this early. I now like to wait and see which players breakout and pick with a little more confidence when we’ve seen actual footage of what they can do on the field.
But again it’s just one of a number of strategies that can be employed to try to build a competitive team, so have no issue, if this is how a manager wants to build their team.
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Post by Phillies (Rook) on Feb 29, 2024 16:59:59 GMT
I stated all or our three leagues. All three leagues started with 5 prospects. Moneyballers 2MLB and a 4th round, Grind 5 MLB and a 4th round. Legends 3MLB and no 4th round. The idea of a fourth round allows teams to always have players from their organization . The initial player contracts allows your team to retain two players for their entire career. The Grind because of having 5 original MLB players will likely keep the 4th round pick for at least several more years. Moneymakers with only 2 original team players plus a year older league probably could do away with the 4th round pick. I’m in favor of keeping it but won’t care if it’s dropped in this league.
Having a league do away with the 4th round pick and another keep it doesn’t cause any problems. In the past Rodger and I and now Wally have tried to keep all three leagues the same fundamentally. It’s important for our managers who have teams in multiple leagues to switch between these leagues and not have to remember the differences between our leagues.
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Post by Blue Jays (Rodger) on Feb 29, 2024 19:38:32 GMT
To be clear, I'm happy to keep the 4th round pick but if enough other people are set against it, I wouldn't fight to keep it.
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